Stacks co-founder Muneeb Ali: Developers will return to the Bitcoin ecosystem, with price expected to reach $150,000 by year-end

Author: Nelson Wang

Translated by: Scof, ChainCatcher

On January 2, Muneeb Ali, co-founder and CEO of Stacks—a leading Bitcoin Layer 2 (L2) project—changed his X (formerly Twitter) bio from "Founder @Stacks" to "Wartime Founder @Stacks." This shift signals Ali's recognition that 2025 will be a pivotal year for Stacks as it transitions from the technical upgrades of 2024 to market expansion and user growth. Last year, Stacks completed its long-awaited Nakamoto Upgrade, significantly improving network speed and achieving 100% finality for all transactions on Bitcoin.

Ali believes this strategic pivot is especially significant as the crypto market enters a bull run fueled by Donald Trump’s presidential election victory and a more favorable regulatory environment.

"Changing my bio was a signal to the community that 'we recognize this is a different era—we need to move faster and be more aggressive,'" Ali told CoinDesk. "It's not that there won't be product updates in 2025, but you could say product development will no longer be the central focus."

In this interview, Ali shares what he would have done differently if he could redesign the Nakamoto Upgrade; his candid views on Lightning Network’s slow progress in advancing Bitcoin payments; his price expectations for Bitcoin in 2025; and his ultimate goal of bringing one billion people on-chain via Stacks. Additionally, Ali will speak at Consensus Hong Kong in February.

This interview has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

Q: How is the Nakamoto Upgrade progressing?

Ali: I still believe Bitcoin desperately needs a truly strong L2. One reason is that the user experience (UX) on Bitcoin’s base layer (L1) isn’t going to change—you simply can’t achieve fast, low-cost transactions at the L1 level. That’s why so many people are interested in Lightning. It’s been around for a while and has some adoption, but not particularly high. Frankly, that’s just the reality.

So I think there’s still a need for a Bitcoin transaction network that offers extreme speed and excellent UX. In fact, Solana has arguably achieved far more in this regard than Lightning or any other solution. Our goal is to build a Bitcoin L2 akin to Solana—one that enables ultra-fast transfers of any funds with an outstanding user experience. I believe the Nakamoto Upgrade is helping us move toward that vision.

Q: If you could redo the Nakamoto Upgrade, what would you do differently?

Ali: The rollout of the Nakamoto Upgrade happened in multiple phases. First, we migrated core consensus capital in April. Then we launched fast blocks, but complex transactions couldn’t benefit from them. Later, we released another version enabling complex transactions to gain those benefits. Looking back, it was more of a "staged release." Each phase built up high expectations, followed by responses like "not quite there yet." By the time full functionality went live, I think it somewhat dampened the initial excitement.

Q: Will developer interest return to Bitcoin in 2025?

Ali: I think so. Bitcoin is unique—it remains resilient regardless of market conditions. Even looking at public markets, you see more and more public companies building Bitcoin treasuries. In terms of adoption, Bitcoin is far ahead of any other project.

A year ago, there might have been greater enthusiasm around Bitcoin L2s, but that excitement seems to have cooled slightly. Still, I believe Bitcoin’s foundational importance is so great that developers will eventually come back to it.

Q: What impact will Trump have on Bitcoin’s development?

Ali: A huge one. Look at the advisors he’s chosen—like David Sacks, who will serve as the czar for crypto and AI. He’s a major limited partner (LP) at Multicoin Capital and deeply knowledgeable about crypto and recent developments like those on Solana. I think this will make a big difference. The same goes for other advisors Trump has picked. Over the past four years, the U.S. government and regulators were largely working against us. Now, they’re likely to actively support and encourage the industry. This 180-degree shift is extremely important and highly beneficial for the sector.

Moreover, if a national Bitcoin reserve program is actually implemented—whether nationwide or even just at the state level, such as in Texas or Wyoming—it would send a very powerful signal globally.

Q: What is your prediction for Bitcoin’s price by the end of 2025?

Ali: I still believe in the four-year cycle theory, and I think this current cycle will conclude in Q4 2025. While there are arguments suggesting cycles may no longer be as pronounced as before, I personally still hold this view. I’d be surprised if Bitcoin hasn’t reached $150,000 by year-end. I genuinely think we could see $200,000—that would be my upper expectation.

Q: When will fast payments on Bitcoin become a reality?

Ali: We’re actively pushing this forward. I give credit to Lightning Network—there are indeed loyal users out there. But the technology itself is complex and not easy to integrate. Moreover, the Bitcoin community has essentially focused all attention on one single project. I think a better approach is to allow multiple experiments to run in parallel and see which ones gain traction. I’m encouraged that many new Bitcoin L2 projects are now launching—finally, we’re seeing diverse experimentation. If Lightning is too hard to integrate, let others try solving the problem.

If you attend Bitcoin conferences or listen to top figures like Michael Saylor [founder of MicroStrategy], you’ll notice they often treat Lightning as the only solution. They rarely mention other L2 efforts. I think part of this stems from the fact that some L2s have their own tokens, which the Bitcoin community tends to dislike. However, I believe this attitude is at least beginning to soften now.

Q: What excites you about speaking at Consensus Hong Kong?

Ali: How do we bring Bitcoin to one billion people? That’s what excites me and drives our technical decisions. If that’s your goal, then almost immediately you’re drawn to L2s—because on Bitcoin’s Layer 1 alone, a billion people couldn’t even simultaneously hold unspent transaction outputs (UTXOs). I think many Bitcoin enthusiasts may not fully realize that Bitcoin’s base chain cannot support a billion users holding UTXOs directly.

This point isn’t discussed enough in our industry. Many have accepted onboarding users through Coinbase, Binance, or ETFs. But that’s not the true essence of Bitcoin. Bitcoin’s core is decentralization, self-custody, and empowering individuals to control their own assets. We must never lose sight of that mission.